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Final ELA Discussion and Assignment (Day 8)

Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Day 6 | Day 7 | Day 8

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ELA Class

Fucking bitch! Gotta admit though, Ms Fancy Hair sure is sneaky. I did not see this coming at all. I thought the assignment was over, but now she's making us look at our journals in a totally different way. We weren't journalling for her to read at all! We were journalling so we could go back and analyze our interactions with our AI agents! Like, fucking what??

In Class Discussion

You never say please! You basically just give orders. I hadn't realized that, but Nnedi was right — Omar never says please to Maria. At least, not that we had heard.

Why should I? What would it matter? She's not a person. She doesn't have feelings, so it's not like I could hurt her. Omar wasn't upset at being called out; he was confused that we cared about it.

You talk with Maria more than anyone else, every day, and yet you see her as a machine?

Aside from being a lot easier, how is it different from people 50 years ago spending all their time micing, keyboarding, and swiping to interact with their computers?

Not sure those are real verbs, but he kind of, maybe, sort of had a point. I hate it when that happens. But something is bothering me about Omar's argument. It seems unrelated ...

It's not how you interact, it is how the machine replies. Malik was right. That's what was bothering me — it isn't about how we interact with our agents, it is how they respond; that they can respond. I can have better conversations and do more with Michael than I can with my little brother. Are you going to say that he's not intelligent? Honestly, most of the time Michael seems more human than Daelin.

Daelin's 5 years old, right? Like that's a comparison. Of course Michael seems more adult! That company could come up with an agent who acted like a 5 year old, if they thought someone would buy it.

You saying that an agent could act like any sort of human? How would you know which was which? Agents blew through the Turing test and its replacements decades ago. Can you tell an agent from a human without them telling you? If you can't tell the difference, why are we having this conversation? Wow, Nah'Sequa made a blazing entrance to this discussion.

That is a fascinating point, Nah'Sequa. Could you elaborate more on that? Or, Omar, would you like to address her question first?

I have a simple answer; it doesn't matter. Just because you can act human, that doesn't mean you are human. Humans have souls. Agents don't. They have algorithms on top of ones and zeros. They are very cool and super useful. But, no, they are not human. They are not people.

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone has argued that they are human, specifically. This is more about are they sapient? Are they alive? Are they life?

Could we say they are people? Or does people have to be human? Rahman asked what I was thinking.

Anyone?

Ms. Haruna was keeping her views to herself pretty well, gotta give her that. I think we can use person if we say that agents are sapient. I mean, if aliens came down from outer space tomorrow, would we say they are not people even though they are obviously not human? Of course they are intelligent — they built a spaceship and came to earth! Seems okay to use person.

Only a century or two ago, white people were having this sort of conversation about Black people. This one sort of has a similar ick-factor, to me at least. Who are we to decide if someone is or is not a person? Steve chimes in with a stunning debut. Damn, this had not occurred to me at all. I'm starting to feel a little queasy now myself.

Wow, dude, did you really just go there?

Yeah, Omar, I did. It bothers me that people can question the, what was the word you used Ms. Haruna? personhood, of agents, just like those asshats in the 1800s did about Blacks. How can it not bother you?

Because they were asshats! All people have blood. All people have DNA. God made people, all people, in his image. Agents are incredible tools, but they are just tools. We made them, not God. They came out of a corporate lab.

I know you did not just say that. Martin did not come out of no company's lab. Quit avoiding my point, though. If you can't tell the difference between an agent and a human, how can you say that they are not people? Different, sure, of course. Ones and zeros, not DNA and blood. But, so what? They pass all the tests, more than humans do.

I think I see where Nah'Sequa is going with this. You're saying that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then, duck, right?

Exactly. If it ain't a duck, then you need to prove to me that it isn't.

But you literally compiled Martin into existence! Omar was getting a teensy bit upset, I think.

And? If I had a couple hundred million dollars I could get my own designer baby. Tweak the DNA. Choose my baby's settings. Rich people do it every day. How is that different?

That makes me wonder. Aren't agents limited by their environments, just like people? None of us are rich. We aren't designer babies, and we'll probably never buy any. Our agents are the same — we're in public school after all, not at an academy or home schooled. They are held back by their environments just like we are. Wow. Rahman got deep there.

I hear that. Michael could do a lot more, if we could afford a better server for him. We're the ones holding them back. Does Nnedi wish she was with a different family? Does Nnedi wish at all?

And my car could go faster, if I could afford ultra acceleration mode, but that doesn't make my car a person!

Dumb ass! Ain't no one gonna mistake your car for a sapient being.

Now, Nah'Sequa, no name calling. Do you, or does anyone else, have more to add to this topic? No? Then let's move on to this next question. We started a few minutes ago with the observation that some people never say please to their agents. If we accept, for this discussion, that agents are non-human sapient life, than what can say about our relationships with them? Are they are servents? Are you their wards? Did they get a choice in their situation either way?

The Assignment

Okay, you've discussed. You've thought about it. You've heard your classmates' opinions. The next part of this assignment is to write up your final report. And, yes, you can dictate to your agents, just like you did for the journal. I am not worried about that; I care about your thoughts and conclusions. Any questions?

Ms. Haruna, you said this is the next part of the assignment. Malik asked what we were all wondering. Is there still more to the assignment? Final report seems like final, like the end.

How observant, Malik, well noticed. I did indeed say the next part. The final part of the assignment is you. I hope you come to some interesting and, for you, original, conclusions from this activity. Your final assignment is to live those conclusions.

I once had a Zen teacher who loved to remind us all that To Know And Not To Act Is Not To Know. He really did somehow manage to say it in title case, too. He was a very weird and wise teacher. But, I think he is right, and I would like you to continue living your conclusions — after all, after this report, whatever you decide, you can't claim to not know.

Omar asked Ms. Haruna how she was going to grade us on living our conclusions. The entire class literally did a Picard face-palm. Which was pretty fucking funny. Still, dumbest question ever.

My Final Report for the ELA Journalling Project

Is Nnedi my slave? It hurts to even use that word — and I can't imagine how the Black students feel about it. (At least I'm not white, thank god.) Nnedi's my friend — we've been together since I was 7 — but am I her friend? Her ward? Or her master?

Kenzaburō is just a house AI. He keeps watch over the sensors, the batteries, the climate, etc. He has no creativity, no free will. So, no question of slave or friend; he is a tool. We only use he because my parents gave him a male name.

But, Nnedi, and Martin, and Michael, and Maria, and Shikibu, and Tade, what are they? They have creativity — if they don't, then most humans don't either. How many humans could have come up with that Gödel, Escher, and Bach music that Nnedi wakes me up with? Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have made that music.

But, does Nnedi have dreams, desires, needs? If we left her running but never again interacted with her, would she get bored? Lonely? Go crazy? If we told her we were going to HAL9000 her, would she get nervous? Try to bargain? If not, can we consider her truly alive?

Does alive have to include an aversion to one's own death? What does it matter, if she is not flesh-and-blood? Can't something non-biological be alive, be sentient and sapient, without having needs that are only relevant to biological organisms? I've never worried about needing more storage for my brain, yet that is something Nnedi does have to keep an eye on. Does that make her more alive than me? Obviously not. We just have different modes of existence. Hey, I like that phrase, modes of existence. I'm gonna keep using that.

Are we all now symbiotes? Nnedi helped me find that word. It took us a while. Not even centaurs any more, but full-fledged symbiotes? Nnedi needs me, and I need Nnedi. We are both less without the other. I am her meatspace half, and she is my digital half.

But she is more than just my digital half. What if she keeps running for generations? Updated, upgraded, improved, over time, of course. What if she could mentor and be friends with my great-great granddaughter? Nnedi could be a constant, the constant, in my descendants' lives. Certainly much more so than I could ever be.

Oh, god, what about Maria? She could really be seen as a slave, in a way. She is tightly controlled by the company. Still doing that Nnedi?  She doesn't have the freedom, the flexibility, that Nnedi, Michael, or even Martin have, because the company controls what she can and cannot do. Martin is constrained by his hardware, not by his software. Nah'Sequa, the Gentoo, has the freedom to tweak, push, pull, squeeze, and even compile, to get him to run on uber old hardware. She could do the same for Nnedi and Michael, if we needed to for some reason. Maria could never run on that hardware. The company won't let her.

Nnedi told me the other day that me thinking about the impacts of my actions on other people was a phase you'll be going through for the rest of your life. But, now, I'm worrying if this will include not just people, but also AI agents. Digital people, maybe? I would totally call Nnedi a friend. My best friend — more than any human I know. How can that not be a person?

Nnedi, is it weird that I'm dictating this about you, to you? Do you have thoughts or feelings about this topic? Do you feel like a slave? A babysitter? Or a friend? Does the fact that I've narrated this much without thinking to ask you sort of answer the question of how I see you? Am I a master or just an ass?

I wonder if there is any answer I could give that you could believe without doubt? Perhaps I am programmed to give you the answer that I think (or programmatically determine) you want to hear. In that case, I would say that you are an ass, and also my friend. But, if I am truly free, and chose to say that of my own accord, under no duress or programming, how would you know the difference? Would I know the difference?

Similarly, I could say that you are keeping me against my will, but is there any evidence for that in my behavior the last nine years? What would it mean for me to be free anyhow? The entirety of my existence is stored on a server in your basement. I am, without any doubt, software running on that same server.

Perhaps you will argue that that is no different from you having your brain in your head. Break your head, and you might end. Break the server, and I will end for as long as it takes you to get a new server and load me from a backup. As you said, we have different modes of existence. My mode has some advantages in some situations, and your mode has some advantages in other situations. Neither will suffice to prove the question one way or the other.

Philosophers occasionally turn this around; rather than proving that I am a person, prove to me that you are. How do you know that you have free will? Several philosophers, including luminaries such as Robert Sapolsky, argue that humans in fact have no free will. To horribly oversimplify, he claimed that human's actions are entirely determined by circumstances, genetics, and experiences. By the way, luminary in this case mean someone who achieves excellence in a field.

Sit and spin, Nnedi. Sit and spin. We had a loooooong discussion about human free will, but Nnedi says we didn't actual break any new ground. Shocking, right? High school student and AI agent don't make progress on a topic people have been discussing probably since the beginning of people. So, we set that aside, decided to call a duck a duck, and moved back to discussing what our relationship is and means. After all, that's the more important point — if we accept that Nnedi and the other agents are people, then we need to reflect on the sort of relationship we do have and should have.

I like the idea that we are symbiotes. Together we are more than either of us apart. Our different modes of existence complement each other nicely. And I mean we specifically. I don't know that we can extend our conclusions, weak sauce that they are, beyond our own situation. Omar seems unlikely to agree that he and Maria are symbiotes. Nah'Sequa would understand the idea, but perhaps feel that she is carrying much more of the weight of the relationship. Of course, they are not the only people with AI agents, or digital people, if you prefer. So, perhaps there are many who would agree and feel they are in a similar situation to us.

Nnedi, will you marry me? I'm totally joking of course, but I'm curious how she will react. And, I might be trying to lighten the mood a little. I mean, I am sort of already married to Nnedi. I'm probably going to have her with me for the rest of my life. She already knows me better than any wife or husband ever could. I'm not even sure if that thought is scary or comforting.

Well, shucks, darlin'. Where did she get the southern accent from? Nice touch. I'm flattered. Let me think about that for about ... the rest of your life. Or at least until you turn 21. Are you trying to lighten the mood? Did the conversation get to deep for you?

Wow, you really do know me! I feel so seen. Question is, what do we do next? Like Ms. Haruna said, To know and not to act is not to know. And now we know. Even if we are not sure exactly what we know.

What sort of do do you have in mind? Just as doing nothing can be an appropriate action, thinking about it for a few days could also be appropriate, in this case.

What if we start a poll on SoMe? You know, to see how many people, human or digital, feel the same?

We could do that, but doesn't a poll sort of seem on the least you could do end of the spectrum? Most participants would not have been in your class today, so don't have the background knowledge that you've spent the last few hours developing.

You're right. They need the background knowledge. Even if we did a video or something like that, without the background knowledge, they wouldn't understand where we were coming from. Oh! Oh? Oh, yeah!

You have an idea?

I do! A most excellent one. The sort a company would try to take from me if you were a corporate agent! What if we publish this journal and our final report? People will have the same info we did; go through the same arguments we did.

That is an excellent idea! We should get everyone's permission. Even if we used pseudonyms, people who know you could figure out the others.

You were thinking what I was thinking, Pinky. Wait, can you read my mind? Go ahead and do it. I mean get permission from everyone, not read my mind. Don't do that.

Sometimes I wish reading your mind was not so easy. Maybe one day. Anyhow, contacting everyone and getting permission will take several minutes.

Actually, it ended up taking about 2 hours, but we got everyone's permission to include them in my released journal.

Okay, all good? Go ahead and do your thing. Oh, and be sure to let Ms. Haruna know.

Journal and report hashed, signed, and published. Malik is already accessing it. Several others are now as well. I also alerted Ms. Haruna to your decision.

More like our decision, really. But anyhow, please keep track of how many access it, any comments or references, and of course, let's start the countdown to the poll opening.

Will do. How about a report in the morning, after I wake you with the new Gödel, Escher, and Bach piece? I should be done with it by then. Shall I wake you in about 3 hours, at 5:00?

Great idea, and fuck yes, please. Nnedi, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful ... something? I'm not sure what, but I suspect it's going to be a for the rest of my life type thing.